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Extremely Controversial Gay Marriage
- Thread starter Windmage
- Start date
Dakare
Deus Ex Machina
I honestly don't care if they get married. If they love each other enough to want to tie the knot, why not? I mean, what's preventing them from getting married doing, anyway? Turning them straight? I don't think so.
The only thing I'm a bit iffy on is if they should be allowed to have kids, only because if two guys adopt a son, will that son turn out gay? That's my only thing
The only thing I'm a bit iffy on is if they should be allowed to have kids, only because if two guys adopt a son, will that son turn out gay? That's my only thing
animaldude
Sage in Training
Yea... go ahead.
Just the whole adopting thing is wrong...
Just the whole adopting thing is wrong...
Windmage
Co-Webmaster, Co-Conspirator
Why can't they adopt? I don't understand that part. Why not if they're competent parents?
webmasterbob
The Webmaster
I have absolutely no problem with gay and lesbian couples getting hitched. I would however refrain from using the word marriage seeing as the term arises from Judaism, the foundation for basically all modern God religion today. It holds its sacred right and, honestly, that's the reason a lot of these religious groups are fighting over it. Just call it Partnered, Joined, something with the same meaning and rights but just a different term. It will make everyone happy in the long run (and produce far less headaches).
On the subject of adoption, why not let them adopt? Being raised by gay or lesbian parents will not make you gay or lesbian. Your sexual orientation is determined by your hormones, plain and simple. A mother who experiences a lot of stress during pregnancy releases far more estrogen to the baby (if male, thus causing gay). When a mother is is in need of being over defensive, releasing a lot of testosterone, the baby will experience another hormonal shift (if female, possibly lesbian). Do not ask me to cite the source because you would not be able to view it unless you have a Facts on File Medical Database access password. If you do just search for "what makes a person gay" in the medical database and it's the first article there.
Point being, you don't choose to be gay or lesbian. There are children raised by gay couples who live perfectly normal lives. As a matter of fact, my former minister is a gay man and is, at the present, raising two very intelligent young children (neither of which is gay or lesbian). I won't be long, but my former minister is, in my mind, one of the greatest people I've ever known. He taught me a great deal about life and people, and his children deserve and will receive the same education regardless of what anyone else thinks.
On the subject of adoption, why not let them adopt? Being raised by gay or lesbian parents will not make you gay or lesbian. Your sexual orientation is determined by your hormones, plain and simple. A mother who experiences a lot of stress during pregnancy releases far more estrogen to the baby (if male, thus causing gay). When a mother is is in need of being over defensive, releasing a lot of testosterone, the baby will experience another hormonal shift (if female, possibly lesbian). Do not ask me to cite the source because you would not be able to view it unless you have a Facts on File Medical Database access password. If you do just search for "what makes a person gay" in the medical database and it's the first article there.
Point being, you don't choose to be gay or lesbian. There are children raised by gay couples who live perfectly normal lives. As a matter of fact, my former minister is a gay man and is, at the present, raising two very intelligent young children (neither of which is gay or lesbian). I won't be long, but my former minister is, in my mind, one of the greatest people I've ever known. He taught me a great deal about life and people, and his children deserve and will receive the same education regardless of what anyone else thinks.
animaldude
Sage in Training
It's not only that they might turn out gay. The social aspect of having gay parents would be devestating too. I mean, would you really want to have gay parents? That would make having friends over very very awkward.
Ides Of March
Shakespeare's Wife
My religion teaches it's immoral, but I personally do not have much of a problem with it. I agree with the Webmaster, however, in the sense that 'marriage' may not be the best term for it. I don't think it's quite the same as a marriage, but I have nothing against it. It's just different. I don't understand why two people, no matter their sexual orientations, should not be allowed to live a happy life together. I don't know... the act of simply being homosexual is perfectly acceptable, but my religion states that homosexual sex is a sin. It is not something I really care to think about as it has no significance to me. I don't really know where I stand with this. I think it could go either way. I just want to state that (and people often don't get this for some reason) that a person is usually born a homosexual, and it is not a matter of choice. There is no reason for anyone to abuse or look down on those who may find themselves in that situation.
As for the parenting, I would feel a little strange having two mothers or two fathers. Or would I? I suppose if I'd grown up with them, I wouldn't find it to be so. I don't know. Again, I don't feel it's fair for me to comment on such a topic as I am in no similar situation. Once more, I don't feel I really have a stance on this issue. I feel like I just typed a bunch of words. I'm not sure if I actually said anything valuable. Thanks for hearing me out, though.
As for the parenting, I would feel a little strange having two mothers or two fathers. Or would I? I suppose if I'd grown up with them, I wouldn't find it to be so. I don't know. Again, I don't feel it's fair for me to comment on such a topic as I am in no similar situation. Once more, I don't feel I really have a stance on this issue. I feel like I just typed a bunch of words. I'm not sure if I actually said anything valuable. Thanks for hearing me out, though.
Windmage
Co-Webmaster, Co-Conspirator
I'm sure if you grew up with two loving fathers or mothers, you'd have absolutely no problem with it and feel no akwardness. And yes, when you'd have friends over, thats something to tell them beforehand to preprare them for something that it different then the norm. It's just the same as telling your friend that the man that will be at your house isn't your father, but you mom's boyfriend or something like that.
And Ides of March, i'm pretty sure we're in the same religion, but my stand on that is even if it is a sin, we all do it, so why should homosexuality be different? I think that things change as the times change; what was not acceptable in those days may become acceptable in this day and age.
i am a teddy
Graverobber
We all have homosexual sex? Not I.. But I see your point. Our religion states sex is only a sin before marriage. But even if a gay couple was partnered, it would still be a sin to have sex for them. Crazy stuff, I know, but it's what it says...
My stance on this? I have gay friends, ok? I have no problem with that, and I wish them all the luck in the world! So, if they get partnered, I hope they live happy lives, just as any heterosexual couple.
Finally, if a child has gay parents, I'm completely on the side of Windmage and Bob on this. The child probably wouldn't be gay, and read windmage's post on it to see my views
Windmage
Co-Webmaster, Co-Conspirator
We all have homosexual sex? Not I.. But I see your point. Our religion states sex is only a sin before marriage. But even if a gay couple was partnered, it would still be a sin to have sex for them. Crazy stuff, I know, but it's what it says...
My stance on this? I have gay friends, ok? I have no problem with that, and I wish them all the luck in the world! So, if they get partnered, I hope they live happy lives, just as any heterosexual couple.
Finally, if a child has gay parents, I'm completely on the side of Windmage and Bob on this. The child probably wouldn't be gay, and read windmage's post on it to see my views
I meant 'sin'.
Not saying I personally consider it a sin. How can something be a sin if you have no choice?
Windmage
Co-Webmaster, Co-Conspirator
Well, even if having gay parents influenced the child's orientation, what is wrong with that?
animaldude
Sage in Training
A lot of people think being gay is strange. They wont be treated the same way that straight people are in many situations. Putting children in that situation can be socially devastating.
Ides Of March
Shakespeare's Wife
I meant 'sin'.
Not saying I personally consider it a sin. How can something be a sin if you have no choice?
Ok, you have no choice over your sexuality. That is not a sin. However, you DO have a choice whether or not to engage in sexual intimacy, which is, according to my religion, a sin for homosexuals.
Teddy, you had said: " Our religion states sex is only a sin before marriage. But even if a gay couple was partnered, it would still be a sin to have sex for them. Crazy stuff, I know, but it's what it says..."
It is true, our religion does state that sex is a sin before marriage. It doesn't matter if you're gay or not, you shouldn't be doing it. Since sex is meant only for marriage, and the partnership of two homosexuals is not legally a marriage (I think?) then it is a sin, according to those teachings. However, it is considered a sin because it is not physically possible for two people of the same gender to procreate through sexual intimacy. However, I do not believe that this forum is an argument about same-gender sexual relations.
ImprobabilityDrive
Loftwing
Suppose that tommorow a pill was invented. If a pregnant woman were to take this pill, it would cause any children they give birth to, to be born Caucasian. Today, people of different races than the majority in the area are treated differently. A child born into a minority may face socially devastating situations as a result of their race.
Therefore, by your logic, should taking this pill be mandatory for parents? Should couples who refuse to take this pill be allowed to have children? If they can spare their children the hardships, and end discrimination based on race within a generation, should they not be legally compelled to do so?
Of course, with race no longer a dividing factor, people may begin to form prejudices based on other factors. Perhaps they shall began to discriminate based on the color of someone's hair or eyes, perhaps on the sound of their voice or their height. Perhaps more pills could be invented to remedy these differences, but differences in the way people think could still lead some to be treated differently. Maybe, on some glorious day, a pill could be invented which would cure even that, and with a population that is completely identical in mind and body, discrimination would finally end.
If you seek to control to identity of others, in order to make it fit in with what is currently socially accepted, you risk sacrificing individuality for the sake of conformity.
To get to the main point of it, you seem to imply that if we could control other people's sexual orientation, we should do so, 'for their own good'. By that logic, should we cart everyone who identifies as homosexual off to conversion therapy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy
I would also like to reiterate that scientific studies have repeatedly shown that the orientation of the parents does not influence the orientation of the child. If two people can act as competent and loving parents, there is no reason that they should not be given the legal oppurtunity to do so.
Even without the issue of children there is no reason that a homosexual couple should be denied any of the rights that a married couple enjoys.
While I agree that perhaps the government should avoid the term of marriage altogether and simply provide a legal framework for two individuals to recieve all the rights that are currently provided by marriage, I know that doing so would do little to dampen the controversy. The true reason for the debate has never been about the use of the term marriage. It's built upon the 'us vs them' mentality of the religous far right, and their need to hate and fight and rally against 'them'. Since African Americans and feminists are no longer acceptable targets for the mainstream (though you will still see the fringe groups rallying against them) homosexuals have been designated as the latest evil group trying to destroy their families and corrupt their values, and our current debate is founded on blatant bigotry, and a need to not only to feel superior to others, but to also justify that sense of superiority by homosexual couples legally inferior to themselves.
FateFellShort
Epona
Founding fathers of the United States of America originally came here to escape from the Church of England. They wanted to be able to govern themselves, including following their own religions. There is no religion of the United States. So even if gay marriage is against the religion of some, we should not all have to abide by the strict rules of their faith. It should be legal in every state, and if they think its a sin, then they just shouldn't get a homosexual marriage, duh. Why do they care if other people do it? They aren't "sinning" themselves so its really not their problem.
For all the children sitting in orphanages I think we should certainly let gay couples who are apt parents adopt rather than let the children have no parents, which is a horrible situation.
Look up that show 30 days (is that what its called?) and watch the one about the conservative mormon? (i forget) woman and the two gay men. It's interesting. They are very open and loving, and she doesn't even make an effort to change. All her points are redundant and... dumb.
Eh thats all I have to say. Its 3:44 AM and someone won't let me sleep. Hmm..
i am a teddy
Graverobber
When I say our religion, I mean mine, which happens to be shared by Ides.
When I say sin, I am talking about them having sex. Getting partnered is fine, sex is not.
I fully think gay couples should be able to adopt, nothing wrong with that.
Versac
名人/マスタ
I agree pretty much across the board with Bob, but would like to call attention to one little section:
Aside from the overlooking of Zoroastrianism, the main problem I see here is that marriage is a specific legal bond in addition to any religious connection. A civil union grants some, but not all of the rights of a married couple. In order for the government to fully recognize a couple, they must be flat out married. Do I think this is a good term to use? Not really. I think that all of the rights of marriage should be granted under the term civil union, and marriage as a legal status should be dissolved entirely.