• Welcome to the Zelda Sages Forums!

    The Zelda Sages Community Forums are a fun and easy way to interact with Zelda fans from around the globe. Our members also have access to exclusive members' only content. Register and/or log in now! Please note that user registration is currently disabled. If you would like to register please contact us.

The Official Zeldasages Political Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
You don't think Americans were to blame for 9/11? You might want to tell that to a pair of prominent conservatives...



[SIZE=-2]Partial transcript of comments from the[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-2]September 13, 2001 telecast of the 700 Club[/SIZE]


[SIZE=-1]PAT ROBERTSON:[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Jerry, that's my feeling. I think we've just seen the antechamber to terror. We haven't even begun to see what they can do to the major population.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]JERRY FALWELL:[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The ACLU's got to take a lot of blame for this.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]PAT ROBERTSON:[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Well yes.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]JERRY FALWELL:[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."[/SIZE]


[SIZE=-1]PAT ROBERTSON:[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Well, I totally concur[/SIZE][SIZE=-1], and the problem is we have adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government. And so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do. And, the top people, of course, is the court system.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1].[/SIZE]


[SIZE=-1]JERRY FALWELL:[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Pat, did you notice yesterday the ACLU and all the Christ-haters, People For the American Way, NOW, etc. were totally disregarded by the Democrats and the Republicans in both houses of Congress as they went out on the steps and called out on to God in prayer and sang "God Bless America" and said "let the ACLU be hanged". In other words, when the nation is on its knees, the only normal and natural and spiritual thing to do is what we ought to be doing all the time - calling upon God. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]~~~[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]PAT ROBERTSON:[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]>[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Amen[/SIZE]
 
I'm just happy this thread is finally seein some action.

Anyway I wouldn't credit Wright's inane comments as anything that would severely hurt Obama's campaign. I don't know exactly how the rest of the country feels, but if you think about it, it prolly won't change anything. Most people that were going to vote for Obama and those that were not going to vote for him are unmoved by this.

Hey Hillary Clinton's lies are hurting her! What a surprise, have any other politicians lied in their campaigns and have had it come back to haunt them?
 
Liriano said:
I'm just happy this thread is finally seein some action.

Anyway I wouldn't credit Wright's inane comments as anything that would severely hurt Obama's campaign. I don't know exactly how the rest of the country feels, but if you think about it, it prolly won't change anything. Most people that were going to vote for Obama and those that were not going to vote for him are unmoved by this.
Click to expand...
Then why did Obama drop about 10 points vs. McCain in the most recent head to head polling?
 
animaldude said:
Then why did Obama drop about 10 points vs. McCain in the most recent head to head polling?
Click to expand...

Head to head voting varies throughout the primaries. Just because some people feel that way now, doesn't mean they will feel the same way come election day.
 
Two national straw polls can be used as reference:

One Here *overall presidency showing per party along with weekly variances*

Another Here *The impact of Obama's speech on the general public* Currently, only Washington DC voters find overall that Obama solved the problem.

I really love the way they do these polls. You can see at a glance what states thought overall, what the numbers read, find information per individual state, all sorts of really cool stuff. I've been using them for my polling over the last few weeks and I'm rather impressed.

btw this was not meant to be a smack at Obama, just a presentation of facts *and another place you can all actually get sources from :)*
 
Polls are fickle, the issue with Wright is currently fading from public focus. This is due to a variety of reasons, partly because of Obama addressing the issue of race in his speech, partly because of new news taking the spotlight, such as Richardson's endorsment, or Hillary's comments regarding Bosnia, but mainly just because the media moves on to new topics. One day the 'big story' will be Obama's pastor, the next day it will be McCain going senile (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/03/18/a_mccain_gaffe_in_jordan.html)

I have no doubt that the republican party will try to use the pastor story as an attack during the general election, but giving how fast it's effect is already fading (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120657171729866843.html?mod=politics_primary_hs) , it's doubtful how much effect it would have during a general election.

-----

Now another subject I'd like to discuss is the possibility of democrats leaving in a huff if their candidate loses the primary. As detailed in this story (http://www.gallup.com/poll/105691/McCain-vs-Obama-28-Clinton-Backers-McCain.aspx) according to a poll, many say that they would leave for McCain if Obama wins.

I personally think this is just hyberbole. After John McCain essentailly secured the nomination, you heard lots of stories of republicans ranting and raving, and basically having a temper tantrum over the fact that such a 'liberal' candidate won the primary, and went on to rant that they would rather vote for Hillary than McCain. But as time went on the majority of these people, when faced with the possibility of a democratic victory, reluctantly fell in line behind McCain.

The same thing will likely happen with Hillary supporters. Right now they're having their temper tantrum, saying how they' would rather vote for McCain than Obama, but if Obama becomes more solidly confirmed as the nominee, and Hillary eventually endorses him in order to stay in the party's good graces, then I personally think that the majority of these people will turn to support Obama when faced with the possibility of a republican victory.
 
The thing is that Conservatives realized that although McCain might be more left on some issues, he is a far less left candidate then Clinton and Osama. As for the democrats, McCain is a far more closer to liberal ideas then Obama and Clinton were to conservative ideas. So there is a good chance a lot of less liberal dems will go republican.

This pastor thing is a big issue though. He said when he first addressed the issue how he wasn't aware of all these comments. He had been attending the church for years and he even used the words of his pastor in his book. How could he not know what this guy was all about?

Quote of pastor from his book: “It is this world, a world where cruise ships throw away more food in a day than most residents of Port-au-Prince see in a year, where white folks’ greed runs a world in need, apartheid in one hemisphere, apathy in another hemisphere…That’s the world! On which hope sits!”
 
That's why this thread was started again... read the previous posts -.-

Aside from that, who cares? McCain merely must sit back and watch Obama and Hillary duke it down.. Disagree? Make a point of it.
 
animaldude said:
The thing is that Conservatives realized that although McCain might be more left on some issues, he is a far less left candidate then Clinton and Osama.
Click to expand...

Are you seriously trying to compare a political candidate you don't like with a terrorist leader who is responsible for unmeasurable death and destruction?

What's sad is just how many republicans have already picked up and ran with the Obama/Osama thing. Despite the fact that there is no factual basis for such a comparison, it inspires fear and hatred, so expect to hear no end of it during the election.

----

On to the next point:

i am a teddy said:
Aside from that, who cares? McCain merely must sit back and watch Obama and Hillary duke it down.. Disagree? Make a point of it.
Click to expand...

I personally think that McCain still has a lot of work to do, even while the democratic primary is going on. What is truly remarkable about the demoratic primary is the level of enthusiasm for both candidates. Both candidates are breaking all kinds of funraising records, and for the first time in a long time, the democrats are raising more money than the republicans. To top it off, the sheer number of people showing up to vote in the democratic primaries is shattering all expectations. McCain on the other hand is plagued by rather lackluster fundraising and very little enthusiasm from his own party. As the the republican race grinded to a halt, and the conservatives began to slowly fall in line, there wasn't a sense of "This is the best possible candidate for office," and more of a sense of "This is the best we could do".

In 2004 the democrats saw the consequences of nominating a candidate who their own base were not fundementally excited about with John Kerry. If the current level of enthusiasm of McCain remains the same, he will be at a significant disadvantage in the general election. What he needs to be doing now is building up enthusiasm and morale among his base, and while the democratic primary continues to dominate news coverage, that's going to be a hard thing to do.
 
ImprobabilityDrive said:
I personally think that McCain still has a lot of work to do, even while the democratic primary is going on. What is truly remarkable about the demoratic primary is the level of enthusiasm for both candidates. Both candidates are breaking all kinds of funraising records, and for the first time in a long time, the democrats are raising more money than the republicans. To top it off, the sheer number of people showing up to vote in the democratic primaries is shattering all expectations. McCain on the other hand is plagued by rather lackluster fundraising and very little enthusiasm from his own party. As the the republican race grinded to a halt, and the conservatives began to slowly fall in line, there wasn't a sense of "This is the best possible candidate for office," and more of a sense of "This is the best we could do".

In 2004 the democrats saw the consequences of nominating a candidate who their own base were not fundamentally excited about with John Kerry. If the current level of enthusiasm of McCain remains the same, he will be at a significant disadvantage in the general election. What he needs to be doing now is building up enthusiasm and morale among his base, and while the democratic primary continues to dominate news coverage, that's going to be a hard thing to do.
Click to expand...
Very true. One of the main issue with Kerry was his inability to have a widespread appeal. If I were McCain, I would spend all the extra time I have now that I no longer need to care about whether or not I will be in the general election to gain support. Moderate and even slightly off moderate conservatives love McCain, however the ultra fundamentalist conservatives still very much have a deep hatred of him. Building good PR will be essential if he is to take the White House especially with the very apparent swing the ultra right gives in the general election *a huge number of states went to Bush simply because the far right completely obliterated the moderate and left in poll appearance*. I don't have a recorded citation for that, although anyone alive four years ago knows that's how alot of state elections went down ;).
 
webmasterbob said:
Very true. One of the main issue with Kerry was his inability to have a widespread appeal. If I were McCain, I would spend all the extra time I have now that I no longer need to care about whether or not I will be in the general election to gain support. Moderate and even slightly off moderate conservatives love McCain, however the ultra fundamentalist conservatives still very much have a deep hatred of him. Building good PR will be essential if he is to take the White House especially with the very apparent swing the ultra right gives in the general election *a huge number of states went to Bush simply because the far right completely obliterated the moderate and left in poll appearance*. I don't have a recorded citation for that, although anyone alive four years ago knows that's how alot of state elections went down ;).
Click to expand...
I agree. McCain needs to stop running around the middle east and having tea with the arabs. He's got to use this time to talk to americans.
 
animaldude said:
I agree. McCain needs to stop running around the middle east and having tea with the arabs. He's got to use this time to talk to americans.
Click to expand...
He's trying to help US relations in the middle east instead of completely obsessing about his campaign and ultimately ending up making a huge mess with the Muslim Arabs.
 
He's also making a fairly important campaign statement. At all his talks in the Mideast and Europe he's trying to divorce himself from the memory of the Bush administrations foreign policy. In most speeches he's attempting to tell the rest of the world that he won't go with the "If you're not with us then you're against us" policy that has done massive damage to America's standing with the rest of the world, and that he might actually try listening to our allies.

Of course, since he's still working to gain support among the republican base, he hasn't been able to come right out and say the cowboy politics of the Bush administration were bad, he only indirectly allludes to pursuing a more sane foreign policy.
 
Yeah, Bush had the very common and very arrogant "We're the best and everyone fears us, don't mess or we'll bomb you, try and stop us" American attitude towards the entire world.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top