The Official Zeldasages Political Thread

[Capt. Zeroth]

[edit] I guess I missed a page of discussion. Ignore this post. [/edit]

"why would people stay in these bad conditions when freedom in a wall away?"

Like I said, that was just one instance of communism. In an ideal communistic society, there would be no bad conditions.

communism will always be corrupt and thus it will never work
berlin is a wonderful example

Maybe some day...

 

[animaldude]

Just wanted everyone to know that we're in pursuit of a record here:

This thread is currently second in views and posts with 2,065 and 238, out of all of the recorded threads in the chat. (prior to now) First all time is The Official Riddle Thread by i am a teddy, which received 5,141 views and 421 posts. Third is yet another politics thread, this one by animaldude with 1,445 views and 107 posts.

We're chasing history!

Cool ^_^

Lol I think I remember that old politics thread except it wasn't exactly like this one.

 

[Versac]

I work hard. Why should I be financially equal to some lazy *** scum that doesn't. The beauty of capitalism is that the people who work hard are successful. The ones that aren't don't try.

As I believe Yoyolll has already mentioned, capitalism is by no means a be all end all solution.

I say again, there would be economic equality as a result of plenty. (I use the term plenty here to refer to the Greek philosophy of limitless luxury.) It is not Communism that gives us a perfect world, it is the perfect world that gives us Communism. Any benevolent government would be obligated to provide for its citizens; if said government had unlimited resources, nobody would have to work. As every luxury is provided, the people must search for personal happiness outside of their own means - by holding a meaningful position. This brings the community back to the whole 'why does the baker bake?' question, and supplies the answer 'because he has nothing better to do, and he likes baking anyway'. In such a utopian society, happiness is a given - meaning must be worked for, and is thus the only valued accomplishment.

 

[Dakare]

Thank you for (hopefully) ending the arguement. I know I don't post in here often, but I do follow it, and the last page or three have been very annoying with the bickering.

So any thoughts on Atomic Tuesday tomorrow?

 

[Versac]

So any thoughts on Atomic Tuesday tomorrow?

YES! THE TREND IS SPREADING! SOON THE ENTIRE WORLD WILL ACKNOWLEDGE THE ADJECTIVE THAT I (and another) CREATED! At least, until tomorrow is over.




Oh, you want this post to have a point? Here's one: tomorrow could kill Hillary, it cannot kill Obama. Even a clean 50-50 split (read: unlikely) will effectively be a victory for Obama.

 

[animaldude]

Thank you for (hopefully) ending the arguement. I know I don't post in here often, but I do follow it, and the last page or three have been very annoying with the bickering.

So any thoughts on Atomic Tuesday tomorrow?

Sorry can't do that for you... you'd be surprised at the lack of common sense people have.

Hillary better win.

Stop thinking America. Look around you. Do you know how many people are just born as poor people with nothing to eat? These people don't even have the opportunity to get a job. Kids in India are burning plastic off of discarded wires to sell the copper, little kids in Mexico perish everyday in sweatshops, the poor in western Europe and the middle east must sell their bodies to support their families. Just because America is doing fine doesn't mean the rest of the world copes well with capitalism. Stop being so selfish and think of the benefits communism would give these people.

So you're saying we should just stop being America after our ancestors worked for over 200 years to build the incredible American society that we have today. You're saying we should just give it all to everyone else?

ZOMG ZOMG GENIUS ALERT!!!!!
ZOMG ZOMG GENIUS ALERT!!!!!
ZOMG ZOMG GENIUS ALERT!!!!!

Just, no. Do you want me to give you the incredible history of our country? Because I can do that for you. To even suggest that we destroy all the hard work our ancestors had to go through to create this place is insane. Btw, I hope you realize that the US spends millions on aiding foreign issues.

 

[Versac]

Sorry can't do that for you... you'd be surprised at the lack of common sense people have.

Hillary better win.

Wait, weren't you rabidly anti-Hillary a few days ago?

So you're saying we should just stop being America after our ancestors worked for over 200 years to build the incredible American society that we have today. You're saying we should just give it all to everyone else?

ZOMG ZOMG GENIUS ALERT!!!!!
ZOMG ZOMG GENIUS ALERT!!!!!
ZOMG ZOMG GENIUS ALERT!!!!!

Just, no. Do you want me to give you the incredible history of our country? Because I can do that for you. To even suggest that we destroy all the hard work our ancestors had to go through to create this place is insane. Btw, I hope you realize that the US spends millions on aiding foreign issues.

You just broke out the tradition and emotion arguments. You have ceased arguing on the merits. Coupled with the fact that nobody here has actually stated they want America to begin becoming Communist, I'm about ready to label you a McCarthyist.

 

[animaldude]

Wait, weren't you rabidly anti-Hillary a few days ago?


You just broke out the tradition and emotion arguments. You have ceased arguing on the merits. Coupled with the fact that nobody here has actually stated they want America to begin becoming Communist, I'm about ready to label you a McCarthyist.

Yes but she has no chance against McCain.

Um... yoyolll stated that the only way communism can exist is if the whole world is communist. Plus, he stated:

Stop thinking America. Look around you. Do you know how many people are just born as poor people with nothing to eat? These people don't even have the opportunity to get a job. Kids in India are burning plastic off of discarded wires to sell the copper, little kids in Mexico perish everyday in sweatshops, the poor in western Europe and the middle east must sell their bodies to support their families. Just because America is doing fine doesn't mean the rest of the world copes well with capitalism. Stop being so selfish and think of the benefits communism would give these people.

You don't think that's an emotional argument either?

 

[yoyolll]

Yes but she has no chance against McCain.

Um... yoyolll stated that the only way communism can exist is if the whole world is communist. Plus, he stated:


You don't think that's an emotional argument either?

No, that's for the benefit of all man-kind.


The reason you should work and/or try in life is to make others happy, no matter how undeserving some people might be. What is the point of our existence if not to help each other live good lives?

 

[animaldude]

You are born.
You live.
You work hard to be succesful and feel happy when you are.
Along the way you may help people if you aren't an a-hole.
You die.

What does this have to do with anything again?

 

[yoyolll]

You are born.
You live.
You work hard to be succesful and feel happy when you are.
Along the way you may help people if you aren't an a-hole.
You die.

What does this have to do with anything again?

That's capitalism, here's communism:

Work hard
Make everyone happy
Have as good a life as everyone else
Be equal to everyone else
Die happy, knowing you made everyone else happy

 

[Versac]

Yes but she has no chance against McCain.

Wait, so you're rooting for Hillary because you think she's WORSE than Obama? The entire point of democracy is for everyone to shout their random, bigoted, prejudiced ideas for everybody else to hear and hopefully find one that actually is good. You actually WANT something that is in your opinion 'bad' to advance? The only possible rationale for this is that you are willing to undermine the basic fabric of America just to win an election. You disgust me.

Plus, that's simply a dumb strategy. There would still be a substantial chance of Hillary winning the general election, in which case you would be left with someone you despise rather than someone you dislike.

Um... yoyolll stated that the only way communism can exist is if the whole world is communist. Plus, he stated:

[stuff]

You don't think that's an emotional argument either?

Nope, I don't. It's largely factual. Sure, it is an emotional appeal, but those situations are occurring around the globe; your description of America as 'incredible' is entirely subjective and lacks supportive evidence. I won't even mention how you, with your ZOMGing, you used sarcasm and hyperbole to combat simple empathy. (w00t! Chiasmus AND preteritio in the same sentence! Bonus points!)

 

[animaldude]

That's capitalism, here's communism:

Work hard
Make everyone happy
Have as good a life as everyone else
Be equal to everyone else
Die happy, knowing you made everyone else happy

Like I said, more people would enjoy making themselves happy rather then making others happy. The reason communism can't work is because human nature does not allow it. THE NATURE OF HUMAN KIND IS TO GAIN POWER. No one wants to be happy by "giving to the community". No matter where you set up a communist society, there will be constantly be revolutions and people trying to gain power. That's how you end up with another Joseph Stalin. People do not want to live in a communist society. Look at the overwhelming number of countries that joined in the cause to stop communism during the Cold War. Look around you. Communism does not work.

Yoyolll's obvious response: but if people have no other choice then it'll work

How do we do that... brain wash everybody?

In capitalism, the people who want to be successful are successful. The people who are too lazy to work hard... are not.

Just gonna throw this out there:
"Workers of the world unite!"
Communism= peace... right? Well reaching communism= world wide revolution... correct? So... peace= world wide revolution. Nize.

Wait, so you're rooting for Hillary because you think she's WORSE than Obama? The entire point of democracy is for everyone to shout their random, bigoted, prejudiced ideas for everybody else to hear and hopefully find one that actually is good. You actually WANT something that is in your opinion 'bad' to advance? The only possible rationale for this is that you are willing to undermine the basic fabric of America just to win an election. You disgust me.

Plus, that's simply a dumb strategy. There would still be a substantial chance of Hillary winning the general election, in which case you would be left with someone you despise rather than someone you dislike.


your description of America as 'incredible' is entirely subjective and lacks supportive evidence.

No I like Obama and I hate Hillary but I hate Obama's ideas and dislike Hillary's ideas.

Hmm... evidence...
Now look around you again. Yoyolll is the one who suggested that we are so wealthy and we need to share the wealth. We are not one of the greatest powers in the world. Correct? Why do you think everyone comes here to create a good life for them self.

Edit: Why is it that communists find a home on zelda forums? -_- This 100 vs. 1 thing is getting annoying

 

[yoyolll]

Like I said, more people would enjoy making themselves happy rather then making others happy. The reason communism can't work is because human nature does not allow it. THE NATURE OF HUMAN KIND IS TO GAIN POWER. No one wants to be happy by "giving to the community". No matter where you set up a communist society, there will be constantly be revolutions and people trying to gain power. That's how you end up with another Joseph Stalin. People do not want to live in a communist society. Look at the overwhelming number of countries that joined in the cause to stop communism during the Cold War. Look around you. Communism does not work.

Yoyolll's obvious response: but if people have no other choice then it'll work

How do we do that... brain wash everybody?

In capitalism, the people who want to be successful are successful. The people who are too lazy to work hard... are not.

Just gonna throw this out there:
"Workers of the world unite!"
Communism= peace... right? Well reaching communism= world wide revolution... correct? So... peace= world wide revolution. Nize.

No, you've brought up the same thing again. Not everyone who works hard are succesful. People are born into poverty, people are born with nothing to eat, people lose their jobs because of some stupid dispute and go stumbling down into the lower class, and capitalism allows this to happen.

And think of communism like this: in communism, everyone gives to each other, making each other happy. You give to everyone, everyone gives to you. It's not like "oh I'm gonna work and everyone's gonna take my money", it works both ways.


And what? You like Obama? Reread the first...8 pages?

 

[animaldude]

No, you've brought up the same thing again. Not everyone who works hard are succesful. People are born into poverty, people are born with nothing to eat, people lose their jobs because of some stupid dispute and go stumbling down into the lower class, and capitalism allows this to happen.

And think of communism like this: in communism, everyone gives to each other, making each other happy. You give to everyone, everyone gives to you. It's not like "oh I'm gonna work and everyone's gonna take my money", it works both ways.


And what? You like Obama? Reread the first...8 pages?

Obama- I've continuously stated that I like his character.


And I've combated what you said with, "people would rather make themselves happy".

People are born into poverty in other foreign countries that have problems of their own. It's not the US's job to fix them and yet we do lend these types of countries financial aid. I fail to see how poor people in africa are getting involved in this communism debate.

You know the US has

 

[yoyolll]

Obama- I've continuously stated that I like his character.


And I've combated what you said with, "people would rather make themselves happy".

People are born into poverty in other foreign countries that have problems of their own. It's not the US's job to fix them and yet we do lend these types of countries financial aid. I fail to see how poor people in africa are getting involved in this communism debate.

You know the US has

And I've combated what you said with that last post. I guess you didn't understand so I'll spell it out for you:

Now, look, these all happen in order:

You make people happy
People make you happy
You are happy

Poor countries and their people are getting involved because they are of the same species and if you would start thinking about the poor unfortunate people that are born into poverty and are much, much, smarter than you yet don't have the potential simply because they are born into a poor place with no chance of getting out, you would see how communism would benefit everyone.

 

[animaldude]

You make people happy
People make you happy
You are happy

Do you really think everyone is going to be La-Di-Da happy? It won't work that way because there will always be people that want out. For reasons I've explained.

You haven't answered my question: how do you suggest we form a communist government in today's society?

 

[yoyolll]

Do you really think everyone is going to be La-Di-Da happy? It won't work that way because there will always be people that want out. For reasons I've explained.

You haven't answered my question: how do you suggest we form a communist government in today's society?

Yes, communism was created to make everyone La-Di-Da happy.

And a true communist government is always hard to set up.
The entire planet would have to comply.
And I don't see that happening.

This argument was only started to show that communism works, when you accused Karl Marx of being an idiot, said his idea was stupid and would never work, and claimed China and the USSR to be communist.

 

[Dakare]

Just shut your dirty pie holes. Both of you. Stop bickering. Tis HIGHLY annoying.

Versac already explained, communism will happen eventually, but as a direct result of capitalism. Using capitalism, the technology will get to the point where everyone can be provided for. But only when the technology gets to that point. I believe he referenced Star Trek for that example.

So they're predicting Obama to win Vermont!

 

[webmasterbob]

McCaine is now the certain Republican nominee for president; Hillary and Obama are literally neck and neck right now. Still no word on any clear winner for he Democratic party.